Message ID | 20170726172424.GA410@gmail.com |
---|---|
State | New |
Headers | show |
On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 1:24 PM, H.J. Lu <hongjiu.lu@intel.com> wrote: > I will check it today if there is no objection. > > -"GNU C Library "PKGVERSION RELEASE" release version "VERSION", by Roland McGrath et al.\n\ > +"GNU C Library "PKGVERSION RELEASE" release version "VERSION".\n\ I think we should preserve Roland's name here. He was the _original_ author, and deserves to continue to be credited as such, even though he is no longer working on it. zw
On 07/26/2017 01:55 PM, Zack Weinberg wrote: > On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 1:24 PM, H.J. Lu <hongjiu.lu@intel.com> wrote: >> I will check it today if there is no objection. >> >> -"GNU C Library "PKGVERSION RELEASE" release version "VERSION", by Roland McGrath et al.\n\ >> +"GNU C Library "PKGVERSION RELEASE" release version "VERSION".\n\ > > I think we should preserve Roland's name here. He was the _original_ > author, and deserves to continue to be credited as such, even though > he is no longer working on it. I disagree in this particular case. Roland is credited in many ways by having his name in ChangeLog's, commit messages, and manual/contrib.texi. Likewise I think manual/libc.texinfo should should be purged of individual names. My reasons are that this is a large consensus-based project, and having individuals names front-and-center removes from that sense of community and responsibility, perhaps even pushing away future contributors by making them think such individuals are still involved in the project (for good or ill). Rhetorically speaking, what makes certain individuals and their contributions more or less important than other individuals and their contributions, that they should get their name on the project books, or executable banners? We made good step forward by removing source 'Contributed by' entries, and we should continue progress in that direction. Let me reiterate that I absolutely believe people should receive credit where credit due, but I do not think that such banners and front matter are the correct way to do this.
On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 10:24:24AM -0700, H.J. Lu wrote: > I will check it today if there is no objection. > > H.J. There might be configure scripts in the wild that rely on the current format of this banner, so please do not change it before the release. > --- > * csu/version.c (banner): Remove Roland McGrath et al. > --- > csu/version.c | 2 +- > 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) > > diff --git a/csu/version.c b/csu/version.c > index e0d884dbf3..f3992ab6c8 100644 > --- a/csu/version.c > +++ b/csu/version.c > @@ -24,7 +24,7 @@ static const char __libc_release[] = RELEASE; > static const char __libc_version[] = VERSION; > > static const char banner[] = > -"GNU C Library "PKGVERSION RELEASE" release version "VERSION", by Roland McGrath et al.\n\ > +"GNU C Library "PKGVERSION RELEASE" release version "VERSION".\n\ > Copyright (C) 2017 Free Software Foundation, Inc.\n\ > This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.\n\ > There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A\n\
On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Dmitry V. Levin <ldv@altlinux.org> wrote: > On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 10:24:24AM -0700, H.J. Lu wrote: >> I will check it today if there is no objection. >> >> H.J. > > There might be configure scripts in the wild that rely on the current > format of this banner, so please do not change it before the release. Did you mean that it can never be changed? >> --- >> * csu/version.c (banner): Remove Roland McGrath et al. >> --- >> csu/version.c | 2 +- >> 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) >> >> diff --git a/csu/version.c b/csu/version.c >> index e0d884dbf3..f3992ab6c8 100644 >> --- a/csu/version.c >> +++ b/csu/version.c >> @@ -24,7 +24,7 @@ static const char __libc_release[] = RELEASE; >> static const char __libc_version[] = VERSION; >> >> static const char banner[] = >> -"GNU C Library "PKGVERSION RELEASE" release version "VERSION", by Roland McGrath et al.\n\ >> +"GNU C Library "PKGVERSION RELEASE" release version "VERSION".\n\ >> Copyright (C) 2017 Free Software Foundation, Inc.\n\ >> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.\n\ >> There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A\n\ > > > -- > ldv
On 07/26/2017 03:04 PM, H.J. Lu wrote: > On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Dmitry V. Levin <ldv@altlinux.org> wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 10:24:24AM -0700, H.J. Lu wrote: >>> I will check it today if there is no objection. >>> >>> H.J. >> >> There might be configure scripts in the wild that rely on the current >> format of this banner, so please do not change it before the release. > > Did you mean that it can never be changed? I think the point was to avoid the change without giving distributions time to catch up during a development cycle. For example in Fedora we would catch this in Rawhide. So make the change as early as possible when 2.27 opens.
On 07/26/2017 05:11 PM, Roland McGrath wrote: > I will be vaguely saddened by no longer having my name appear there, but I > will not be offended. It's a consensus decision for the group. > > Everything Carlos said makes sense, but now I know he hates me and I can > exact my vengeance in due time. I will be on the lookout for an affluent well-dressed aristocrat coming from the island of Monte Cristo... On the other hand we could auction off this spot to donors of the FSF's GNU Toolchain fund as a way to raise annual funds. You could get your name in a "sponsored by" slot for the release? ;-)
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Carlos O'Donell wrote: > We made good step forward by removing source 'Contributed by' > entries, and we should continue progress in that direction. We've not yet removed them from existing source files (just stopped adding them in new files). Perhaps we should remove them from existing files (especially given how often patches appear with a completely inaccurate "Contributed by" because someone copied a random source file as the basis of a new one). (Note: some source files have "Contributed by" comments extending over more than one source line; removal would need to allow for that rather than just blindly removing the first line where the words "Contributed by" appear. Also, if removing them, make sure the person named is sufficiently credited in contrib.texi rather than being absent there or only having a small unrepresentative set of their contributions mentioned.)
On 07/27/2017 08:33 PM, Joseph Myers wrote: > On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Carlos O'Donell wrote: > >> We made good step forward by removing source 'Contributed by' >> entries, and we should continue progress in that direction. > > We've not yet removed them from existing source files (just stopped adding > them in new files). Perhaps we should remove them from existing files > (especially given how often patches appear with a completely inaccurate > "Contributed by" because someone copied a random source file as the basis > of a new one). > > (Note: some source files have "Contributed by" comments extending over > more than one source line; removal would need to allow for that rather > than just blindly removing the first line where the words "Contributed by" > appear. Also, if removing them, make sure the person named is > sufficiently credited in contrib.texi rather than being absent there or > only having a small unrepresentative set of their contributions > mentioned.) I agree, removal of existing "Contributed by" should involve a human and proper attribution in contrib.texi for such contributions.
I'd like to suggest that if such a change is made it should be made more thoroughly - also removing the "Available extensions:" author details from Banner files. Probably the whole Banner mechanism should be removed (again, making sure contrib.texi has adequate credits for the things removed from Banner files). The only actual variable information it presents is whether add-ons (i.e. libidn) are enabled, and there's a case for simply making libidn unconditional and removing the add-ons mechanism as well.
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 08:36:02PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote: > I agree, removal of existing "Contributed by" should involve a human > and proper attribution in contrib.texi for such contributions. /plug for cauldron BOF It's good to see everyone realizes the importance of recognizing contributions. I'd like to make the main subject discussed in my cauldron BOF this year (assuming it is accepted) to be ways of recognizing maintainer's efforts. I mean other than their own patch contribution which of course is recognized as for every other contributor, ie. things like patch review. Email from those not attending the cauldron but who have some ideas, gratefully accepted.
On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Carlos O'Donell <carlos@redhat.com> wrote: > On 07/26/2017 03:04 PM, H.J. Lu wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Dmitry V. Levin <ldv@altlinux.org> wrote: >>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 10:24:24AM -0700, H.J. Lu wrote: >>>> I will check it today if there is no objection. >>>> >>>> H.J. >>> >>> There might be configure scripts in the wild that rely on the current >>> format of this banner, so please do not change it before the release. >> >> Did you mean that it can never be changed? > > I think the point was to avoid the change without giving distributions > time to catch up during a development cycle. For example in Fedora we > would catch this in Rawhide. So make the change as early as possible > when 2.27 opens. > This is what I am going to check in: * csu/version.c (banner): Remove "by Roland McGrath et al.". * nptl/Banner: Remove "by Ulrich Drepper et al.".
On 09/01/2017 11:26 AM, H.J. Lu wrote: > On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Carlos O'Donell <carlos@redhat.com> wrote: >> On 07/26/2017 03:04 PM, H.J. Lu wrote: >>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Dmitry V. Levin <ldv@altlinux.org> wrote: >>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 10:24:24AM -0700, H.J. Lu wrote: >>>>> I will check it today if there is no objection. >>>>> >>>>> H.J. >>>> >>>> There might be configure scripts in the wild that rely on the current >>>> format of this banner, so please do not change it before the release. >>> >>> Did you mean that it can never be changed? >> >> I think the point was to avoid the change without giving distributions >> time to catch up during a development cycle. For example in Fedora we >> would catch this in Rawhide. So make the change as early as possible >> when 2.27 opens. >> > > This is what I am going to check in: > > * csu/version.c (banner): Remove "by Roland McGrath et al.". > * nptl/Banner: Remove "by Ulrich Drepper et al.". > > Looks good to me.
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, H.J. Lu wrote: > This is what I am going to check in: > > * csu/version.c (banner): Remove "by Roland McGrath et al.". > * nptl/Banner: Remove "by Ulrich Drepper et al.". Please see what I said about being sure to update contrib.texi when removing such credits. I think NPTL merits adding to Ulrich Drepper's entry in contrib.texi (but given that, the nptl/Banner file could be removed completely). I think crypt/Banner can be removed (the credit is already in contrib.texi). The reference to a BIND version in contrib.texi should probably be updated when removing resolv/Banner. More credits in contrib.texi are needed to remove soft-fp/Banner. (libidn/Banner serves the purpose of indicating whether the last remaining add-on is configured in, so I don't suggest removing it until the add-on mechanism is also removed and libidn is built unconditionally - however, the corresponding credit could be added to contrib.texi now.)
On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Joseph Myers <joseph@codesourcery.com> wrote: > On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, H.J. Lu wrote: > >> This is what I am going to check in: >> >> * csu/version.c (banner): Remove "by Roland McGrath et al.". >> * nptl/Banner: Remove "by Ulrich Drepper et al.". > > Please see what I said about being sure to update contrib.texi when > removing such credits. I think NPTL merits adding to Ulrich Drepper's > entry in contrib.texi (but given that, the nptl/Banner file could be > removed completely). I checked in my patch. Here is a patch to credit Ulrich Drepper for libpthread in contrib.texi. OK for master? > I think crypt/Banner can be removed (the credit is already in > contrib.texi). The reference to a BIND version in contrib.texi should > probably be updated when removing resolv/Banner. More credits in > contrib.texi are needed to remove soft-fp/Banner. (libidn/Banner serves > the purpose of indicating whether the last remaining add-on is configured > in, so I don't suggest removing it until the add-on mechanism is also > removed and libidn is built unconditionally - however, the corresponding > credit could be added to contrib.texi now.) I will get to these when I find time if no one beats me to it.
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, H.J. Lu wrote: > On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Joseph Myers <joseph@codesourcery.com> wrote: > > On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, H.J. Lu wrote: > > > >> This is what I am going to check in: > >> > >> * csu/version.c (banner): Remove "by Roland McGrath et al.". > >> * nptl/Banner: Remove "by Ulrich Drepper et al.". > > > > Please see what I said about being sure to update contrib.texi when > > removing such credits. I think NPTL merits adding to Ulrich Drepper's > > entry in contrib.texi (but given that, the nptl/Banner file could be > > removed completely). > > I checked in my patch. Here is a patch to credit Ulrich Drepper for > libpthread in contrib.texi. OK for master? OK.
diff --git a/csu/version.c b/csu/version.c index e0d884dbf3..f3992ab6c8 100644 --- a/csu/version.c +++ b/csu/version.c @@ -24,7 +24,7 @@ static const char __libc_release[] = RELEASE; static const char __libc_version[] = VERSION; static const char banner[] = -"GNU C Library "PKGVERSION RELEASE" release version "VERSION", by Roland McGrath et al.\n\ +"GNU C Library "PKGVERSION RELEASE" release version "VERSION".\n\ Copyright (C) 2017 Free Software Foundation, Inc.\n\ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.\n\ There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A\n\