| Message ID | 20161109165607.26322-1-emil.l.velikov@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| State | Superseded |
| Headers | show |
On Wed, Nov 09, 2016 at 04:56:07PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: > From: Emil Velikov <emil.velikov@collabora.com> > > Currently the revision isn't available via sysfs/libudev thus if one > wants to know the value they need to read through the config file. > > This in itself wakes/powers up the device, causing unwanted delays. > > There are at least two userspace components which could make use the new > file - libpciaccess and libdrm. At the moment the former will wake up > _every_ PCI device for simple invocation of glxinfo [when using Mesa > 10.0+ drivers]. While the latter [in association with Mesa 13.0] can > lead to 2-3 second delays while starting firefox, thunderbird or > chromium. > > Expose the revision as a separate file, just like we do for the device, > vendor, their subsystem version and class. > > Cc: Bjorn Helgaas <bhelgaas@google.com> > Cc: linux-pci@vger.kernel.org > Link: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98502 > Tested-by: Mauro Santos <registo.mailling@gmail.com> > Reviewed-by: Alex Deucher <alexander.deucher@amd.com> > Signed-off-by: Emil Velikov <emil.velikov@collabora.com> > --- > v2: > - Add r-b/t-b tags > - Slim down CC list > - Add note about userspace. > > As before, please keep me in the CC list. Additionally if there's > anything else I can do to get things going please let me know. > > Thanks > Emil > --- > drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c | 2 ++ > 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+) > > diff --git a/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c b/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c > index bcd10c7..0666287 100644 > --- a/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c > +++ b/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c > @@ -50,6 +50,7 @@ pci_config_attr(vendor, "0x%04x\n"); > pci_config_attr(device, "0x%04x\n"); > pci_config_attr(subsystem_vendor, "0x%04x\n"); > pci_config_attr(subsystem_device, "0x%04x\n"); > +pci_config_attr(revision, "0x%02x\n"); > pci_config_attr(class, "0x%06x\n"); > pci_config_attr(irq, "%u\n"); Shouldn't we get a Documentation/ABI/ update for this as well? thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-pci" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On 10 November 2016 at 07:13, Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 09, 2016 at 04:56:07PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: >> From: Emil Velikov <emil.velikov@collabora.com> >> >> Currently the revision isn't available via sysfs/libudev thus if one >> wants to know the value they need to read through the config file. >> >> This in itself wakes/powers up the device, causing unwanted delays. >> >> There are at least two userspace components which could make use the new >> file - libpciaccess and libdrm. At the moment the former will wake up >> _every_ PCI device for simple invocation of glxinfo [when using Mesa >> 10.0+ drivers]. While the latter [in association with Mesa 13.0] can >> lead to 2-3 second delays while starting firefox, thunderbird or >> chromium. >> >> Expose the revision as a separate file, just like we do for the device, >> vendor, their subsystem version and class. >> >> Cc: Bjorn Helgaas <bhelgaas@google.com> >> Cc: linux-pci@vger.kernel.org >> Link: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98502 >> Tested-by: Mauro Santos <registo.mailling@gmail.com> >> Reviewed-by: Alex Deucher <alexander.deucher@amd.com> >> Signed-off-by: Emil Velikov <emil.velikov@collabora.com> >> --- >> v2: >> - Add r-b/t-b tags >> - Slim down CC list >> - Add note about userspace. >> >> As before, please keep me in the CC list. Additionally if there's >> anything else I can do to get things going please let me know. >> >> Thanks >> Emil >> --- >> drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c | 2 ++ >> 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+) >> >> diff --git a/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c b/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c >> index bcd10c7..0666287 100644 >> --- a/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c >> +++ b/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c >> @@ -50,6 +50,7 @@ pci_config_attr(vendor, "0x%04x\n"); >> pci_config_attr(device, "0x%04x\n"); >> pci_config_attr(subsystem_vendor, "0x%04x\n"); >> pci_config_attr(subsystem_device, "0x%04x\n"); >> +pci_config_attr(revision, "0x%02x\n"); >> pci_config_attr(class, "0x%06x\n"); >> pci_config_attr(irq, "%u\n"); > > Shouldn't we get a Documentation/ABI/ update for this as well? > Definitely, we should. I've updated Documentation/filesystems/sysfs-pci.txt [locally] yet looking through ABI/ there is only a 'testing' one - Documentation/ABI/testing/sysfs-bus-pci. Feels a bit strange there is no stable one, guess I should/could start one ? Thanks Emil -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-pci" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Hi Emil, On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 01:14:35PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: > On 10 November 2016 at 07:13, Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 09, 2016 at 04:56:07PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: > >> From: Emil Velikov <emil.velikov@collabora.com> > >> > >> Currently the revision isn't available via sysfs/libudev thus if one > >> wants to know the value they need to read through the config file. > >> > >> This in itself wakes/powers up the device, causing unwanted delays. > >> > >> There are at least two userspace components which could make use the new > >> file - libpciaccess and libdrm. At the moment the former will wake up > >> _every_ PCI device for simple invocation of glxinfo [when using Mesa > >> 10.0+ drivers]. While the latter [in association with Mesa 13.0] can > >> lead to 2-3 second delays while starting firefox, thunderbird or > >> chromium. I agree, these unwanted delays are completely unacceptable. My question is whether we should fix them by exporting more information from the kernel, or by changing the way the userspace components work. It should not take anywhere near 2 seconds to wake up a PCI device. That makes me think there's a more serious problem than just a lack of caching for the revision field, e.g., maybe we're looking at far more PCI devices than we need to, or we're doing it many times to the same device, or ... If I understand correctly, the delay was bisected to https://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/commit/?id=be239326aa4f, which removed a bunch of code that looked up the vendor and device IDs, and replaced it with drmGetDevice(). And apparently drmGetDevice(), in this path: drmGetDevice drmProcessPciDevice drmParsePciDeviceInfo is a little more thorough in that it looks up the *revision* in addition to the vendor and device IDs. So we pay the cost for the revision even though in this instance we don't care about the revision at all. drmParsePciDeviceInfo() currently reads the whole config header from sysfs (https://cgit.freedesktop.org/drm/libdrm/tree/xf86drm.c#n2949), but I think you're extending that to try the vendor, device, subsystem_vendor, subsystem_device, and (if present) revision sysfs files first (http://www.spinics.net/lists/dri-devel/msg122319.html). Bottom line, I guess I'm not super opposed to this, but I do feel like we're making a kernel change to cover up a userspace problem, and I think it would be better to push on that userspace problem a little more. > >> Expose the revision as a separate file, just like we do for the device, > >> vendor, their subsystem version and class. > >> > >> Cc: Bjorn Helgaas <bhelgaas@google.com> > >> Cc: linux-pci@vger.kernel.org > >> Link: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98502 > >> Tested-by: Mauro Santos <registo.mailling@gmail.com> > >> Reviewed-by: Alex Deucher <alexander.deucher@amd.com> > >> Signed-off-by: Emil Velikov <emil.velikov@collabora.com> > >> --- > >> v2: > >> - Add r-b/t-b tags > >> - Slim down CC list > >> - Add note about userspace. > >> > >> As before, please keep me in the CC list. Additionally if there's > >> anything else I can do to get things going please let me know. > >> > >> Thanks > >> Emil > >> --- > >> drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c | 2 ++ > >> 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+) > >> > >> diff --git a/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c b/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c > >> index bcd10c7..0666287 100644 > >> --- a/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c > >> +++ b/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c > >> @@ -50,6 +50,7 @@ pci_config_attr(vendor, "0x%04x\n"); > >> pci_config_attr(device, "0x%04x\n"); > >> pci_config_attr(subsystem_vendor, "0x%04x\n"); > >> pci_config_attr(subsystem_device, "0x%04x\n"); > >> +pci_config_attr(revision, "0x%02x\n"); > >> pci_config_attr(class, "0x%06x\n"); > >> pci_config_attr(irq, "%u\n"); > > > > Shouldn't we get a Documentation/ABI/ update for this as well? > > > Definitely, we should. > > I've updated Documentation/filesystems/sysfs-pci.txt [locally] yet > looking through ABI/ there is only a 'testing' one - > Documentation/ABI/testing/sysfs-bus-pci. > > Feels a bit strange there is no stable one, guess I should/could start one ? I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this new ABI is "stable" when all the existing ones are only "testing". I'd just leave it in testing along with all the others. Bjorn -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-pci" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On 10 November 2016 at 23:59, Bjorn Helgaas <helgaas@kernel.org> wrote: > Hi Emil, > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 01:14:35PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: >> On 10 November 2016 at 07:13, Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: >> > On Wed, Nov 09, 2016 at 04:56:07PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: >> >> From: Emil Velikov <emil.velikov@collabora.com> >> >> >> >> Currently the revision isn't available via sysfs/libudev thus if one >> >> wants to know the value they need to read through the config file. >> >> >> >> This in itself wakes/powers up the device, causing unwanted delays. >> >> >> >> There are at least two userspace components which could make use the new >> >> file - libpciaccess and libdrm. At the moment the former will wake up >> >> _every_ PCI device for simple invocation of glxinfo [when using Mesa >> >> 10.0+ drivers]. While the latter [in association with Mesa 13.0] can >> >> lead to 2-3 second delays while starting firefox, thunderbird or >> >> chromium. > > I agree, these unwanted delays are completely unacceptable. My > question is whether we should fix them by exporting more information > from the kernel, or by changing the way the userspace components work. > > It should not take anywhere near 2 seconds to wake up a PCI device. > That makes me think there's a more serious problem than just a lack of > caching for the revision field, e.g., maybe we're looking at far more > PCI devices than we need to, or we're doing it many times to the same > device, or ... > > If I understand correctly, the delay was bisected to > https://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/commit/?id=be239326aa4f, which > removed a bunch of code that looked up the vendor and device IDs, and > replaced it with drmGetDevice(). And apparently drmGetDevice(), in > this path: > > drmGetDevice > drmProcessPciDevice > drmParsePciDeviceInfo > > is a little more thorough in that it looks up the *revision* in > addition to the vendor and device IDs. So we pay the cost for the > revision even though in this instance we don't care about the revision > at all. > Above all, apologies for all the "lovely" code that you had to go through for these. And yes, you've got it spot on. > drmParsePciDeviceInfo() currently reads the whole config header from > sysfs (https://cgit.freedesktop.org/drm/libdrm/tree/xf86drm.c#n2949), > but I think you're extending that to try the vendor, device, > subsystem_vendor, subsystem_device, and (if present) revision sysfs > files first (http://www.spinics.net/lists/dri-devel/msg122319.html). > Yes, making the revision file optional and "faking it" was my first thought, esp. since we don't have any users of it (yet). Although people are not too keen on it, so we'll likely opt for revision-less API. > Bottom line, I guess I'm not super opposed to this, but I do feel like > we're making a kernel change to cover up a userspace problem, and I > think it would be better to push on that userspace problem a little > more. > Yes, definitely we can beat some sense into userspace. Yet that shouldn't be a deterrent for exposing the revision. As hinted before the other prominent user libpciaccess wakes up probes _every_ pci device. Atm that library is used by Xorg, Spice, libvirt and a few others. Amongst which are the Intel GL drivers (via libdrm_intel.so), [only] when GLX_MESA_query_renderer is used. Or in other words - if Firefox/other GL app wants to use the extension, they'll get similar delays. We should look into that one as well, but it will be more picky to address (read "slower to reach end users"). >> I've updated Documentation/filesystems/sysfs-pci.txt [locally] yet >> looking through ABI/ there is only a 'testing' one - >> Documentation/ABI/testing/sysfs-bus-pci. >> >> Feels a bit strange there is no stable one, guess I should/could start one ? > > I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this new ABI is "stable" when > all the existing ones are only "testing". I'd just leave it in > testing along with all the others. > Agreed. Thank you ! Emil -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-pci" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 12:31:47AM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: > On 10 November 2016 at 23:59, Bjorn Helgaas <helgaas@kernel.org> wrote: > > Hi Emil, > > > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 01:14:35PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: > >> On 10 November 2016 at 07:13, Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> > On Wed, Nov 09, 2016 at 04:56:07PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: > >> >> From: Emil Velikov <emil.velikov@collabora.com> > >> >> > >> >> Currently the revision isn't available via sysfs/libudev thus if one > >> >> wants to know the value they need to read through the config file. > >> >> > >> >> This in itself wakes/powers up the device, causing unwanted delays. > >> >> > >> >> There are at least two userspace components which could make use the new > >> >> file - libpciaccess and libdrm. At the moment the former will wake up > >> >> _every_ PCI device for simple invocation of glxinfo [when using Mesa > >> >> 10.0+ drivers]. While the latter [in association with Mesa 13.0] can > >> >> lead to 2-3 second delays while starting firefox, thunderbird or > >> >> chromium. > > > > I agree, these unwanted delays are completely unacceptable. My > > question is whether we should fix them by exporting more information > > from the kernel, or by changing the way the userspace components work. > > > > It should not take anywhere near 2 seconds to wake up a PCI device. > > That makes me think there's a more serious problem than just a lack of > > caching for the revision field, e.g., maybe we're looking at far more > > PCI devices than we need to, or we're doing it many times to the same > > device, or ... > > > > If I understand correctly, the delay was bisected to > > https://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/commit/?id=be239326aa4f, which > > removed a bunch of code that looked up the vendor and device IDs, and > > replaced it with drmGetDevice(). And apparently drmGetDevice(), in > > this path: > > > > drmGetDevice > > drmProcessPciDevice > > drmParsePciDeviceInfo > > > > is a little more thorough in that it looks up the *revision* in > > addition to the vendor and device IDs. So we pay the cost for the > > revision even though in this instance we don't care about the revision > > at all. > > > Above all, apologies for all the "lovely" code that you had to go > through for these. > And yes, you've got it spot on. > > > drmParsePciDeviceInfo() currently reads the whole config header from > > sysfs (https://cgit.freedesktop.org/drm/libdrm/tree/xf86drm.c#n2949), > > but I think you're extending that to try the vendor, device, > > subsystem_vendor, subsystem_device, and (if present) revision sysfs > > files first (http://www.spinics.net/lists/dri-devel/msg122319.html). > > > Yes, making the revision file optional and "faking it" was my first > thought, esp. since we don't have any users of it (yet). > Although people are not too keen on it, so we'll likely opt for > revision-less API. > > > Bottom line, I guess I'm not super opposed to this, but I do feel like > > we're making a kernel change to cover up a userspace problem, and I > > think it would be better to push on that userspace problem a little > > more. > > > Yes, definitely we can beat some sense into userspace. Yet that > shouldn't be a deterrent for exposing the revision. Maybe. If we speed things up by extending this kernel ABI, there's much less incentive to optimize the userspace stuff. I feel a little bit like an enabler for undesirable userspace behavior :) > As hinted before the other prominent user libpciaccess wakes up probes > _every_ pci device. Is it really necessary to probe *every* PCI device? That doesn't sound like a scalable design. As you can tell, the argument that "we should add this kernel ABI to make suboptimal userspace algorithms go faster" doesn't feel very compelling to me. > Atm that library is used by Xorg, Spice, libvirt and a few others. > Amongst which are the Intel GL drivers (via libdrm_intel.so), [only] > when GLX_MESA_query_renderer is used. > > Or in other words - if Firefox/other GL app wants to use the > extension, they'll get similar delays. > We should look into that one as well, but it will be more picky to > address (read "slower to reach end users"). -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-pci" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Hi Bjorn, On 11 November 2016 at 14:49, Bjorn Helgaas <helgaas@kernel.org> wrote: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 12:31:47AM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: >> On 10 November 2016 at 23:59, Bjorn Helgaas <helgaas@kernel.org> wrote: >> > Hi Emil, >> > >> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 01:14:35PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: >> >> On 10 November 2016 at 07:13, Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: >> >> > On Wed, Nov 09, 2016 at 04:56:07PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: >> >> >> From: Emil Velikov <emil.velikov@collabora.com> >> >> >> >> >> >> Currently the revision isn't available via sysfs/libudev thus if one >> >> >> wants to know the value they need to read through the config file. >> >> >> >> >> >> This in itself wakes/powers up the device, causing unwanted delays. >> >> >> >> >> >> There are at least two userspace components which could make use the new >> >> >> file - libpciaccess and libdrm. At the moment the former will wake up >> >> >> _every_ PCI device for simple invocation of glxinfo [when using Mesa >> >> >> 10.0+ drivers]. While the latter [in association with Mesa 13.0] can >> >> >> lead to 2-3 second delays while starting firefox, thunderbird or >> >> >> chromium. >> > >> > I agree, these unwanted delays are completely unacceptable. My >> > question is whether we should fix them by exporting more information >> > from the kernel, or by changing the way the userspace components work. >> > >> > It should not take anywhere near 2 seconds to wake up a PCI device. >> > That makes me think there's a more serious problem than just a lack of >> > caching for the revision field, e.g., maybe we're looking at far more >> > PCI devices than we need to, or we're doing it many times to the same >> > device, or ... >> > >> > If I understand correctly, the delay was bisected to >> > https://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/commit/?id=be239326aa4f, which >> > removed a bunch of code that looked up the vendor and device IDs, and >> > replaced it with drmGetDevice(). And apparently drmGetDevice(), in >> > this path: >> > >> > drmGetDevice >> > drmProcessPciDevice >> > drmParsePciDeviceInfo >> > >> > is a little more thorough in that it looks up the *revision* in >> > addition to the vendor and device IDs. So we pay the cost for the >> > revision even though in this instance we don't care about the revision >> > at all. >> > >> Above all, apologies for all the "lovely" code that you had to go >> through for these. >> And yes, you've got it spot on. >> >> > drmParsePciDeviceInfo() currently reads the whole config header from >> > sysfs (https://cgit.freedesktop.org/drm/libdrm/tree/xf86drm.c#n2949), >> > but I think you're extending that to try the vendor, device, >> > subsystem_vendor, subsystem_device, and (if present) revision sysfs >> > files first (http://www.spinics.net/lists/dri-devel/msg122319.html). >> > >> Yes, making the revision file optional and "faking it" was my first >> thought, esp. since we don't have any users of it (yet). >> Although people are not too keen on it, so we'll likely opt for >> revision-less API. >> >> > Bottom line, I guess I'm not super opposed to this, but I do feel like >> > we're making a kernel change to cover up a userspace problem, and I >> > think it would be better to push on that userspace problem a little >> > more. >> > >> Yes, definitely we can beat some sense into userspace. Yet that >> shouldn't be a deterrent for exposing the revision. > > Maybe. If we speed things up by extending this kernel ABI, there's > much less incentive to optimize the userspace stuff. I feel a little > bit like an enabler for undesirable userspace behavior :) > Yes, fixing userspace to not do silly things is the goal. But at the same time even if userspace is perfect, there is no reason to power on the device just to get the revision field, is it ? Especially since everything else is readily available. >> As hinted before the other prominent user libpciaccess wakes up probes >> _every_ pci device. > > Is it really necessary to probe *every* PCI device? That doesn't > sound like a scalable design. > > As you can tell, the argument that "we should add this kernel ABI to > make suboptimal userspace algorithms go faster" doesn't feel very > compelling to me. > "Don't shoot the messenger" comes to mind. I'm just the stupid^Wnice person who's trying to untangle unfortunate design decisions - don't force me to rewrite more than a dozen pieces of software, please ? Even then, I wonder how long it'll take for those to hit end users. Yes I see your concern - userspace does do stupid stuff. Yet it [sometimes] must know the information and the current way of retrieving it (waking up the device) is quite sub-optimal. Thanks Emil P.S. Some drivers have custom ioctls to retrieve the device info (incl. revision). Surely we won't want to continue promoting/assisting that ? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-pci" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On 11/11/16 08:59 AM, Bjorn Helgaas wrote: > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 01:14:35PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: >> On 10 November 2016 at 07:13, Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: >>> On Wed, Nov 09, 2016 at 04:56:07PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: >>>> From: Emil Velikov <emil.velikov@collabora.com> >>>> >>>> Currently the revision isn't available via sysfs/libudev thus if one >>>> wants to know the value they need to read through the config file. >>>> >>>> This in itself wakes/powers up the device, causing unwanted delays. >>>> >>>> There are at least two userspace components which could make use the new >>>> file - libpciaccess and libdrm. At the moment the former will wake up >>>> _every_ PCI device for simple invocation of glxinfo [when using Mesa >>>> 10.0+ drivers]. While the latter [in association with Mesa 13.0] can >>>> lead to 2-3 second delays while starting firefox, thunderbird or >>>> chromium. > > I agree, these unwanted delays are completely unacceptable. My > question is whether we should fix them by exporting more information > from the kernel, or by changing the way the userspace components work. > > It should not take anywhere near 2 seconds to wake up a PCI device. The DRM drivers for AMD/ATI GPUs can take on the order of that to initialize, so a single wakeup might be sufficient for the described symptoms.
On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 06:56:51PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: > Hi Bjorn, > > On 11 November 2016 at 14:49, Bjorn Helgaas <helgaas@kernel.org> wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 12:31:47AM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: > >> On 10 November 2016 at 23:59, Bjorn Helgaas <helgaas@kernel.org> wrote: > >> > Hi Emil, > >> > > >> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 01:14:35PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: > >> >> On 10 November 2016 at 07:13, Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> >> > On Wed, Nov 09, 2016 at 04:56:07PM +0000, Emil Velikov wrote: > >> >> >> From: Emil Velikov <emil.velikov@collabora.com> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Currently the revision isn't available via sysfs/libudev thus if one > >> >> >> wants to know the value they need to read through the config file. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> This in itself wakes/powers up the device, causing unwanted delays. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> There are at least two userspace components which could make use the new > >> >> >> file - libpciaccess and libdrm. At the moment the former will wake up > >> >> >> _every_ PCI device for simple invocation of glxinfo [when using Mesa > >> >> >> 10.0+ drivers]. While the latter [in association with Mesa 13.0] can > >> >> >> lead to 2-3 second delays while starting firefox, thunderbird or > >> >> >> chromium. > >> > > >> > I agree, these unwanted delays are completely unacceptable. My > >> > question is whether we should fix them by exporting more information > >> > from the kernel, or by changing the way the userspace components work. > >> > > >> > It should not take anywhere near 2 seconds to wake up a PCI device. > >> > That makes me think there's a more serious problem than just a lack of > >> > caching for the revision field, e.g., maybe we're looking at far more > >> > PCI devices than we need to, or we're doing it many times to the same > >> > device, or ... > >> > > >> > If I understand correctly, the delay was bisected to > >> > https://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/commit/?id=be239326aa4f, which > >> > removed a bunch of code that looked up the vendor and device IDs, and > >> > replaced it with drmGetDevice(). And apparently drmGetDevice(), in > >> > this path: > >> > > >> > drmGetDevice > >> > drmProcessPciDevice > >> > drmParsePciDeviceInfo > >> > > >> > is a little more thorough in that it looks up the *revision* in > >> > addition to the vendor and device IDs. So we pay the cost for the > >> > revision even though in this instance we don't care about the revision > >> > at all. > >> > > >> Above all, apologies for all the "lovely" code that you had to go > >> through for these. > >> And yes, you've got it spot on. > >> > >> > drmParsePciDeviceInfo() currently reads the whole config header from > >> > sysfs (https://cgit.freedesktop.org/drm/libdrm/tree/xf86drm.c#n2949), > >> > but I think you're extending that to try the vendor, device, > >> > subsystem_vendor, subsystem_device, and (if present) revision sysfs > >> > files first (http://www.spinics.net/lists/dri-devel/msg122319.html). > >> > > >> Yes, making the revision file optional and "faking it" was my first > >> thought, esp. since we don't have any users of it (yet). > >> Although people are not too keen on it, so we'll likely opt for > >> revision-less API. > >> > >> > Bottom line, I guess I'm not super opposed to this, but I do feel like > >> > we're making a kernel change to cover up a userspace problem, and I > >> > think it would be better to push on that userspace problem a little > >> > more. > >> > > >> Yes, definitely we can beat some sense into userspace. Yet that > >> shouldn't be a deterrent for exposing the revision. > > > > Maybe. If we speed things up by extending this kernel ABI, there's > > much less incentive to optimize the userspace stuff. I feel a little > > bit like an enabler for undesirable userspace behavior :) > > > Yes, fixing userspace to not do silly things is the goal. But at the > same time even if userspace is perfect, there is no reason to power on > the device just to get the revision field, is it ? > Especially since everything else is readily available. > > >> As hinted before the other prominent user libpciaccess wakes up probes > >> _every_ pci device. > > > > Is it really necessary to probe *every* PCI device? That doesn't > > sound like a scalable design. > > > > As you can tell, the argument that "we should add this kernel ABI to > > make suboptimal userspace algorithms go faster" doesn't feel very > > compelling to me. > > > "Don't shoot the messenger" comes to mind. I'm just the stupid^Wnice > person who's trying to untangle unfortunate design decisions - don't > force me to rewrite more than a dozen pieces of software, please ? > Even then, I wonder how long it'll take for those to hit end users. Pre-be239326aa4f, you had: int libudev_get_pci_id_for_fd(int fd, int *vendor_id, int *chip_id) int sysfs_get_pci_id_for_fd(int fd, int *vendor_id, int *chip_id) int drm_get_pci_id_for_fd(int fd, int *vendor_id, int *chip_id) None of them returned the revision. There was some duplicated code, but it was apparently functional and fast. be239326aa4f removed libudev_get_pci_id_for_fd() and sysfs_get_pci_id_for_fd(), which made the code prettier. It also changed drm_get_pci_id_for_fd() to use drmGetDevice() instead of the awful hard-coding of vendor/device IDs based on drmGetVersion()->name. But drmGetDevice() also returns the revision, which we don't need. If you applied http://www.spinics.net/lists/dri-devel/msg122319.html, you'd have code that's fast but unreliable (as you pointed out, it returns the revision on new kernels, but 0 on old kernels, with no hint to the caller about whether the revision is accurate). If the caller can say "I don't care about the revision", e.g., http://www.spinics.net/lists/dri-devel/msg123013.html, you can make drm_get_pci_id_for_fd() fast again. But it will be fast and functional even if the kernel doesn't export a "revision" sysfs file. So what's the benefit of adding it? This seems like a long circular chain of making things simpler in one area but having to add new complications in another to compensate. Bjorn -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-pci" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
diff --git a/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c b/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c index bcd10c7..0666287 100644 --- a/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c +++ b/drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c @@ -50,6 +50,7 @@ pci_config_attr(vendor, "0x%04x\n"); pci_config_attr(device, "0x%04x\n"); pci_config_attr(subsystem_vendor, "0x%04x\n"); pci_config_attr(subsystem_device, "0x%04x\n"); +pci_config_attr(revision, "0x%02x\n"); pci_config_attr(class, "0x%06x\n"); pci_config_attr(irq, "%u\n"); @@ -568,6 +569,7 @@ static struct attribute *pci_dev_attrs[] = { &dev_attr_device.attr, &dev_attr_subsystem_vendor.attr, &dev_attr_subsystem_device.attr, + &dev_attr_revision.attr, &dev_attr_class.attr, &dev_attr_irq.attr, &dev_attr_local_cpus.attr,