| Message ID | 20191108114841.1343-1-freifunk@adrianschmutzler.de |
|---|---|
| Headers | show |
| Series | introduce label_mac into hostname and SSID | expand |
Hi Adrian, On 08.11.2019 12:48, Adrian Schmutzler wrote: > This patchset will introduce the label MAC address into the _default_ > hostname and SSID of OpenWrt devices. Devices installed after these > commits (or upgraded with sysupgrade -n) will have their hostname and > SSID set to > OpenWrt-ddeeff > where "ddeeff" is the EUI of the label MAC address aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff. As this is something which touches essential system setting (identification), I would really like other team members to join the discussion before it sneaks in again. Especially because this was already merged and reverted later, after short discussion on IRC. From my point of view, I'm only worried about all the consequences we don't know about, so I would prefer to have this one _optional_. On the other hand, I'm fine with the SSID change but I see it's not going to be that straightforward to implement. Also, what I'm thinking about here is which one MAC should be used for the SSID name. The 'label' one which is not available on all devices or maybe the 'phy' one? > For devices where no label MAC address has been specified, hostname > and SSIDs will use the former default "OpenWrt". And this is probably the biggest issue I have with the whole idea behind 'label_mac'. As I understand the motivation, I don't like the fact it's not specified (and probably would never be) for all devices so we will have here inconsistency (in essential system settings!) and might end up with confusion. Maybe that's something which should be handled by downstream users/projects (and AFAIK, it is already).
I am strongly against this change for a simple reason. Advantage of this change is questionable, but we can get all sorts of trouble. сб, 16 нояб. 2019 г. в 18:31, Piotr Dymacz <pepe2k@gmail.com>: > > Hi Adrian, > > On 08.11.2019 12:48, Adrian Schmutzler wrote: > > This patchset will introduce the label MAC address into the _default_ > > hostname and SSID of OpenWrt devices. Devices installed after these > > commits (or upgraded with sysupgrade -n) will have their hostname and > > SSID set to > > OpenWrt-ddeeff > > where "ddeeff" is the EUI of the label MAC address aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff. > > As this is something which touches essential system setting > (identification), I would really like other team members to join the > discussion before it sneaks in again. Especially because this was > already merged and reverted later, after short discussion on IRC. > > From my point of view, I'm only worried about all the consequences we > don't know about, so I would prefer to have this one _optional_. > > On the other hand, I'm fine with the SSID change but I see it's not > going to be that straightforward to implement. > Also, what I'm thinking about here is which one MAC should be used for > the SSID name. The 'label' one which is not available on all devices or > maybe the 'phy' one? > > > For devices where no label MAC address has been specified, hostname > > and SSIDs will use the former default "OpenWrt". > > And this is probably the biggest issue I have with the whole idea behind > 'label_mac'. As I understand the motivation, I don't like the fact it's > not specified (and probably would never be) for all devices so we will > have here inconsistency (in essential system settings!) and might end up > with confusion. Maybe that's something which should be handled by > downstream users/projects (and AFAIK, it is already). > > -- > Cheers, > Piotr > > > > > Implementing the EUI is intended to make identification of a > > particular OpenWrt device easier. The label MAC address qualifies > > for this as it is easily visible on the case and thus apparent to > > both educated and uneducated users. > > > > Adrian Schmutzler (1): > > base-files: rename SSID with EUI of mac address > > > > Rosy Song (1): > > base-files: rename hostname with EUI of mac address > > > > package/base-files/files/bin/config_generate | 16 +++++++++++++- > > .../etc/uci-defaults/15_wifi-ssid-mac-address | 22 +++++++++++++++++++ > > 2 files changed, 37 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) > > create mode 100644 package/base-files/files/etc/uci-defaults/15_wifi-ssid-mac-address > > > > > _______________________________________________ > openwrt-devel mailing list > openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org > https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Hi Piotr, Thank you for providing extensive feedback on this topic. > -----Original Message----- > From: openwrt-devel [mailto:openwrt-devel-bounces@lists.openwrt.org] > On Behalf Of Piotr Dymacz > Sent: Samstag, 16. November 2019 16:32 > To: Adrian Schmutzler <freifunk@adrianschmutzler.de>; openwrt- > devel@lists.openwrt.org > Subject: Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] [PATCH 0/2] introduce label_mac into > hostname and SSID > > Hi Adrian, > > On 08.11.2019 12:48, Adrian Schmutzler wrote: > > This patchset will introduce the label MAC address into the _default_ > > hostname and SSID of OpenWrt devices. Devices installed after these > > commits (or upgraded with sysupgrade -n) will have their hostname and > > SSID set to OpenWrt-ddeeff where "ddeeff" is the EUI of the label MAC > > address aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff. > > As this is something which touches essential system setting (identification), I > would really like other team members to join the discussion before it sneaks > in again. Especially because this was already merged and reverted later, after > short discussion on IRC. > > From my point of view, I'm only worried about all the consequences we > don't know about, so I would prefer to have this one _optional_. With the label MAC address being available already independent of this patch, it's relatively easy for someone building the image to create custom hostname and SSID in a uci-default script, achieving similar effects as in this patchset with about 10 lines of code. For that reason, I do not think that providing a _standardized optional_ rename is worth the effort of maintaining it, as the user could get a much more flexible alternative (manual uci-defaults file) with manageable amount of additional work. In this context, let me point out that for me personally the important feature is having the label MAC address. What I do in this patchset (which isn't even from me originally) is a nice-to-have additional use of this feature, but I don't heavily insist on it. So, if feedback keeps to be mainly negative, I will bury it and still be fine (and will still be able to use the label MAC address in custom scripts). > > On the other hand, I'm fine with the SSID change but I see it's not going to be > that straightforward to implement. > Also, what I'm thinking about here is which one MAC should be used for the > SSID name. The 'label' one which is not available on all devices or maybe the > 'phy' one? We had this discussion very early when this was still a PR in GitHub, as initially it actually was using the phy addresses. The argument for using the label MAC was on the one hand that the label MAC address is apparent to the user on the case, while a +1/-1 of this number will be (a little bit) confusing. Secondly, only having the label MAC address would assure having the same SSID for more than one WiFi interface (as it's now the case with default 'OpenWrt'). This was explicitly requested by ynezz (as the only committer reviewing this) back then. > > > For devices where no label MAC address has been specified, hostname > > and SSIDs will use the former default "OpenWrt". > > And this is probably the biggest issue I have with the whole idea behind > 'label_mac'. As I understand the motivation, I don't like the fact it's not > specified (and probably would never be) for all devices so we will have here > inconsistency (in essential system settings!) and might end up with > confusion. Maybe that's something which should be handled by downstream > users/projects (and AFAIK, it is already). Yes, I cannot discuss away this drawback, some devices will have OpenWrt_ddeeff and some will have just OpenWrt. I just never felt (and still feel) about that as being a practical problem. And from my personal experience with downstream projects, the SSID most probably gets overwritten with something completely different anyway, only the change in hostname might matter there. So, I have lots of time to wait for further feedback on this, and I most probably will bury it without too bad feelings if negative feedback continues. At the end, this is just meant as an improvement for the uneducated end user, I will have zero benefit for my personal/downstream projects from this (unlike the label MAC address itself, which is extremely helpful). Best Adrian
Hi Adrian, On 17.11.2019 00:23, mail@adrianschmutzler.de wrote: > Hi Piotr, > > Thank you for providing extensive feedback on this topic. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: openwrt-devel [mailto:openwrt-devel-bounces@lists.openwrt.org] >> On Behalf Of Piotr Dymacz >> Sent: Samstag, 16. November 2019 16:32 >> To: Adrian Schmutzler <freifunk@adrianschmutzler.de>; openwrt- >> devel@lists.openwrt.org >> Subject: Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] [PATCH 0/2] introduce label_mac into >> hostname and SSID >> >> Hi Adrian, >> >> On 08.11.2019 12:48, Adrian Schmutzler wrote: >> > This patchset will introduce the label MAC address into the _default_ >> > hostname and SSID of OpenWrt devices. Devices installed after these >> > commits (or upgraded with sysupgrade -n) will have their hostname and >> > SSID set to OpenWrt-ddeeff where "ddeeff" is the EUI of the label MAC >> > address aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff. >> >> As this is something which touches essential system setting (identification), I >> would really like other team members to join the discussion before it sneaks >> in again. Especially because this was already merged and reverted later, after >> short discussion on IRC. >> >> From my point of view, I'm only worried about all the consequences we >> don't know about, so I would prefer to have this one _optional_. > > With the label MAC address being available already independent of this patch, > it's relatively easy for someone building the image to create custom hostname > and SSID in a uci-default script, achieving similar effects as in this patchset with > about 10 lines of code. That's correct. > For that reason, I do not think that providing a _standardized optional_ rename > is worth the effort of maintaining it, as the user could get a much more flexible > alternative (manual uci-defaults file) with manageable amount of additional work. Agree. > In this context, let me point out that for me personally the important feature is > having the label MAC address. What I do in this patchset (which isn't even from > me originally) is a nice-to-have additional use of this feature, but I don't heavily > insist on it. So, if feedback keeps to be mainly negative, I will bury it and still be > fine (and will still be able to use the label MAC address in custom scripts). OK. I also think it would be good to document that new system function 'get_mac_label' somewhere in the Wiki. I know that you worked on the topic already: [0]. >> On the other hand, I'm fine with the SSID change but I see it's not going to be >> that straightforward to implement. >> Also, what I'm thinking about here is which one MAC should be used for the >> SSID name. The 'label' one which is not available on all devices or maybe the >> 'phy' one? > > We had this discussion very early when this was still a PR in GitHub, as initially > it actually was using the phy addresses. The argument for using the label MAC > was on the one hand that the label MAC address is apparent to the user on the case, while > a +1/-1 of this number will be (a little bit) confusing. Secondly, only having > the label MAC address would assure having the same SSID for more than > one WiFi interface (as it's now the case with default 'OpenWrt'). This was > explicitly requested by ynezz (as the only committer reviewing this) back then. I believe SSID is probably first thing users change when they setup their device after installing OpenWrt. Given the fact we don't allow Wi-Fi to be enabled by default, this is more a matter of taste for me. >> > For devices where no label MAC address has been specified, hostname >> > and SSIDs will use the former default "OpenWrt". >> >> And this is probably the biggest issue I have with the whole idea behind >> 'label_mac'. As I understand the motivation, I don't like the fact it's not >> specified (and probably would never be) for all devices so we will have here >> inconsistency (in essential system settings!) and might end up with >> confusion. Maybe that's something which should be handled by downstream >> users/projects (and AFAIK, it is already). > > Yes, I cannot discuss away this drawback, some devices will have OpenWrt_ddeeff > and some will have just OpenWrt. I just never felt (and still feel) about that as being a practical > problem. And from my personal experience with downstream projects, the SSID > most probably gets overwritten with something completely different anyway, > only the change in hostname might matter there. > > So, I have lots of time to wait for further feedback on this, and I most probably > will bury it without too bad feelings if negative feedback continues. > At the end, this is just meant as an improvement for the uneducated end user, > I will have zero benefit for my personal/downstream projects from this (unlike > the label MAC address itself, which is extremely helpful). I think we look at the project from slightly different perspectives. I have (still) a feeling that OpenWrt should be considered more as a platform, framework or kind of a 'base' for building something bigger on it. Just not a fully ready, polished distribution with fireworks where everything is already defined for users, out of the box. Of course, we have releases with GUI included but everyone can expect that after installing OpenWrt, the box will be available under default project-wide, static hostname and IP address (not some vendor-specific settings), there might be a diag LED defined, there will be filesafe in case of an emergency plus some other _default_ things... and that's all. Everything else we leave (and I believe should be left) for users or downstream projects for customization as there is no way to satisfy everybody. One could prefer static hostname, someone else is asking for a different default IP or protocol on the LAN and there is still demand for unencrypted Wi-Fi enabled by default. We provide sane defaults _only_ which can be maintained without lot of troubles and burden. [0] https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-developer/mac.address#label_mac_address
> -----Original Message----- > From: openwrt-devel [mailto:openwrt-devel-bounces@lists.openwrt.org] On > Behalf Of Piotr Dymacz > Sent: Sonntag, 17. November 2019 14:19 > To: mail@adrianschmutzler.de; openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org > Subject: Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] [PATCH 0/2] introduce label_mac into hostname > and SSID > Based on the feedback I've received on this, I've decided to bury it and conclude on the patches by marking them as "Rejected". Best Adrian