[{"id":1776395,"web_url":"http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/comment/1776395/","msgid":"<20170927143112.GT3112@bill-the-cat>","list_archive_url":null,"date":"2017-09-27T14:31:12","subject":"Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH 0/5] REVERT Follow the Linux Kernel in building\n\tdtc as needed","submitter":{"id":65875,"url":"http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/api/people/65875/","name":"Tom Rini","email":"trini@konsulko.com"},"content":"On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 04:15:19PM +0200, Wolfgang Denk wrote:\n\n> This patch series reverts some patches that should never have been\n> merged into mainline at all:\n> \n> - They were applied in violation of the well established rule that\n>   ALL patches must be posted on the mailing list before, and given\n>   enough time for review by the community.\n> - Obviously, these patches have not been Acked-by: by anybody.\n> - They implement a solution that probably does not represent the\n>   majority of the developers who discussed this issue. They were\n>   applied cutting short the ongoing discussion, without giving a\n>   good, comprehensible reason.  Alternative solutions were\n>   presented before, but this patch series ignores them.\n> \n> U-Boot is a community project with an established and documented\n> development process.  No single person, not even a custodian or\n> maintainer, shall have the power to push through any changes without\n> or against the consent of the community.  If we want to maintain\n> these standards, we cannot accept this.  We therefore have only one\n> choice: revert these patches now, and let them undergo the necessary\n> review process on the mailing list, allowing for the usual grace\n> period of two weeks.  Sorry.\n\nWell, NAK.  When you passed the \"benevolent dictator\" hat over, you\npassed it over.  I value your input, and I don't lightly over-rule\nfeedback.  So, lets summarize things:\n- We need a modern device tree compiler.\n- Everyone needs a modern device tree compiler, because everyone should\n  be running 'make tests'.\n- This is not the first, or second, or possibly even third time we've\n  hit problems of people using different versions of dtc and seeing\n  different results / problems.\n- The Linux Kernel has avoided this problem for forever by just bundling\n  the minimum required parts of dtc in order to build things.\n\nSo, I've imported the infrastructure to keep things in sync, and\nimported upstream dtc.\n\nNow, the best argument I've heard against this is \"bundling is bad\".  I\ndon't disagree, and the best way to fix this problem would be for\ndistributions to start shipping a new enough version here that the\nkernel can drop it out, just like they did for linux-firmware recently.\nA whole lot more people care about the kernel than they do about U-Boot,\nand that's a more viable path forward.  It would even make some kernel\nfolks happy.","headers":{"Return-Path":"<u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de>","X-Original-To":"incoming@patchwork.ozlabs.org","Delivered-To":"patchwork-incoming@bilbo.ozlabs.org","Authentication-Results":["ozlabs.org;\n\tspf=none (mailfrom) smtp.mailfrom=lists.denx.de\n\t(client-ip=81.169.180.215; helo=lists.denx.de;\n\tenvelope-from=u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de;\n\treceiver=<UNKNOWN>)","ozlabs.org;\n\tdkim=fail reason=\"signature verification failed\" (1024-bit key;\n\tunprotected) header.d=konsulko.com header.i=@konsulko.com\n\theader.b=\"NJedrptI\"; dkim-atps=neutral"],"Received":["from lists.denx.de (dione.denx.de [81.169.180.215])\n\tby ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3y2Ky85B24z9tXy\n\tfor <incoming@patchwork.ozlabs.org>;\n\tThu, 28 Sep 2017 00:31:28 +1000 (AEST)","by lists.denx.de (Postfix, from userid 105)\n\tid 1DC35C21DC3; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 14:31:26 +0000 (UTC)","from lists.denx.de (localhost [IPv6:::1])\n\tby lists.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1529C21C51;\n\tWed, 27 Sep 2017 14:31:23 +0000 (UTC)","by lists.denx.de (Postfix, from userid 105)\n\tid BB868C21C51; 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When you passed the \"benevolent dictator\" hat over, you\n> passed it over.  I value your input, and I don't lightly over-rule\n> feedback.  So, lets summarize things:\n\nThese are all technical arguments. You could have raised these in the\nongoing discussion.  If they are good, convincing arguments, you\nshould have no problems to have them accepted.\n\nWhat I'm complainiung about is not WHAT was commited, but HOW it was\ncommitted.\n\nMarek wrote:\n\n| I believe we have a well-established process of submitting patches,\n| getting a review and then applying them. If the head maintainer doesn't\n| follow the process, why should anyone else ?\n\nYou have a role model function. Please stick to the rules!\n\n\nBest regards,\n\nWolfgang Denk","headers":{"Return-Path":"<u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de>","X-Original-To":"incoming@patchwork.ozlabs.org","Delivered-To":"patchwork-incoming@bilbo.ozlabs.org","Authentication-Results":"ozlabs.org;\n\tspf=none (mailfrom) smtp.mailfrom=lists.denx.de\n\t(client-ip=81.169.180.215; helo=lists.denx.de;\n\tenvelope-from=u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de;\n\treceiver=<UNKNOWN>)","Received":["from lists.denx.de (dione.denx.de [81.169.180.215])\n\tby ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3y2LXY1Lw7z9tXs\n\tfor <incoming@patchwork.ozlabs.org>;\n\tThu, 28 Sep 2017 00:57:49 +1000 (AEST)","by lists.denx.de (Postfix, from userid 105)\n\tid EAB93C21D99; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 14:57:38 +0000 (UTC)","from lists.denx.de (localhost [IPv6:::1])\n\tby lists.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CDD1C21D56;\n\tWed, 27 Sep 2017 14:57:35 +0000 (UTC)","by lists.denx.de (Postfix, from userid 105)\n\tid 46C57C21C62; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 14:56:42 +0000 (UTC)","from mail-out.m-online.net (mail-out.m-online.net [212.18.0.9])\n\tby lists.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 387EFC21C51\n\tfor <u-boot@lists.denx.de>; 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Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:56:39 +0200 (CEST)","from gemini.denx.de (gemini.denx.de [10.4.0.2])\n\tby janitor.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B67453E3;\n\tWed, 27 Sep 2017 16:56:27 +0200 (CEST)","from gemini.denx.de (localhost [IPv6:::1])\n\tby gemini.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E011201AF;\n\tWed, 27 Sep 2017 16:56:27 +0200 (CEST)"],"X-Spam-Checker-Version":"SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lists.denx.de","X-Spam-Level":"","X-Spam-Status":"No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=KHOP_BIG_TO_CC,\n\tRCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,\n\tRCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL autolearn=unavailable\n\tautolearn_force=no version=3.4.0","X-Virus-Scanned":"amavisd-new at mnet-online.de","X-Auth-Info":"afWcRAWPyvrOy3uDwlF1Z5wUinQ47j6AJjl4YvdH5kc=","To":"Tom Rini <trini@konsulko.com>","From":"Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de>","MIME-Version":"1.0","In-reply-to":"<20170927143112.GT3112@bill-the-cat>","References":"<1506263222-7080-1-git-send-email-trini@konsulko.com>\n\t<20170927141524.5920-1-wd@denx.de>\n\t<20170927143112.GT3112@bill-the-cat>","Comments":"In-reply-to Tom Rini <trini@konsulko.com>\n\tmessage dated \"Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:31:12 -0400.\"","Date":"Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:56:27 +0200","Message-Id":"<20170927145627.57E011201AF@gemini.denx.de>","X-Mailman-Approved-At":"Wed, 27 Sep 2017 14:57:34 +0000","Cc":"Prafulla Wadaskar <prafulla@marvell.com>,\n\tVipin Kumar <vk.vipin@gmail.com>, \n\tAlexey Brodkin <alexey.brodkin@synopsys.com>,\n\tPantelis Antoniou <panto@antoniou-consulting.com>, u-boot@lists.denx.de, \n\tPrzemyslaw Marczak <p.marczak@samsung.com>,\n\tKim Phillips <kim.phillips@freescale.com>,\n\tJagan Teki <jteki@openedev.com>, \n\tStefan Roese <sr@denx.de>, Marek Vasut <marex@denx.de>,\n\tAngelo Dureghello <angelo@sysam.it>,\n\tMacpaul Lin <macpaul@andestech.com>, \n\tAndre Przywara <andre.przywara@arm.com>,\n\tSonic Zhang <sonic.adi@gmail.com>, Scott Wood <scottwood@freescale.com>,\n\tKyungmin Park <kmpark@infradead.org>, \n\tJoe Hershberger <joe.hershberger@ni.com>,\n\tVagrant Cascadian <vagrant@debian.org>,\n\tHuan Wang <alison.wang@freescale.com>, \n\tTom Warren <TWarren@nvidia.com>, York Sun <yorksun@freescale.com>","Subject":"Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH 0/5] REVERT Follow the Linux Kernel in building\n\tdtc as needed","X-BeenThere":"u-boot@lists.denx.de","X-Mailman-Version":"2.1.18","Precedence":"list","List-Id":"U-Boot discussion <u-boot.lists.denx.de>","List-Unsubscribe":"<https://lists.denx.de/options/u-boot>,\n\t<mailto:u-boot-request@lists.denx.de?subject=unsubscribe>","List-Archive":"<http://lists.denx.de/pipermail/u-boot/>","List-Post":"<mailto:u-boot@lists.denx.de>","List-Help":"<mailto:u-boot-request@lists.denx.de?subject=help>","List-Subscribe":"<https://lists.denx.de/listinfo/u-boot>,\n\t<mailto:u-boot-request@lists.denx.de?subject=subscribe>","Content-Type":"text/plain; charset=\"utf-8\"","Content-Transfer-Encoding":"base64","Errors-To":"u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de","Sender":"\"U-Boot\" <u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de>"}},{"id":1776423,"web_url":"http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/comment/1776423/","msgid":"<20170927152345.GV3112@bill-the-cat>","list_archive_url":null,"date":"2017-09-27T15:23:45","subject":"Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH 0/5] REVERT Follow the Linux Kernel in building\n\tdtc as needed","submitter":{"id":65875,"url":"http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/api/people/65875/","name":"Tom Rini","email":"trini@konsulko.com"},"content":"On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 04:56:27PM +0200, Wolfgang Denk wrote:\n> Dear Tom,\n> \n> In message <20170927143112.GT3112@bill-the-cat> you wrote:\n> > \n> > Well, NAK.  When you passed the \"benevolent dictator\" hat over, you\n> > passed it over.  I value your input, and I don't lightly over-rule\n> > feedback.  So, lets summarize things:\n> \n> These are all technical arguments. You could have raised these in the\n> ongoing discussion.  If they are good, convincing arguments, you\n> should have no problems to have them accepted.\n\nTo which I did for some of them, and others I was going to follow up\nwith, but left aside rather than further the thread.\n\n> What I'm complainiung about is not WHAT was commited, but HOW it was\n> committed.\n> \n> Marek wrote:\n> \n> | I believe we have a well-established process of submitting patches,\n> | getting a review and then applying them. If the head maintainer doesn't\n> | follow the process, why should anyone else ?\n> \n> You have a role model function. Please stick to the rules!\n\nRight.  And part of the job of the custodian is to, on occasion, put\ntheir foot down, on technical grounds, and say when we must do X.  This\nhappens from time to time anyways.  It rarely happens between\ncustodians, and I think this is occurrence number 2 in just over 5\nyears.  And given the related issue of \"everyone\" being broken unless\nthey have a new DTC installed, I didn't want to wait nearly so long try\nand convince Marek as I did with Albert and the unaligned access thing\nlast time.  Nor did I want to go with reverting the FDT changes so we\ncan continue cycling around on what amounts to correcting the previous\nmistake of not just including dtc.","headers":{"Return-Path":"<u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de>","X-Original-To":"incoming@patchwork.ozlabs.org","Delivered-To":"patchwork-incoming@bilbo.ozlabs.org","Authentication-Results":["ozlabs.org;\n\tspf=none (mailfrom) smtp.mailfrom=lists.denx.de\n\t(client-ip=81.169.180.215; helo=lists.denx.de;\n\tenvelope-from=u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de;\n\treceiver=<UNKNOWN>)","ozlabs.org;\n\tdkim=fail reason=\"signature verification failed\" (1024-bit key;\n\tunprotected) header.d=konsulko.com header.i=@konsulko.com\n\theader.b=\"mo1TJGEW\"; dkim-atps=neutral"],"Received":["from lists.denx.de (dione.denx.de [81.169.180.215])\n\tby ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3y2M6j3np8z9sRq\n\tfor <incoming@patchwork.ozlabs.org>;\n\tThu, 28 Sep 2017 01:23:57 +1000 (AEST)","by lists.denx.de (Postfix, from userid 105)\n\tid 3A717C21E31; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:23:53 +0000 (UTC)","from lists.denx.de (localhost [IPv6:::1])\n\tby lists.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9A1C21D78;\n\tWed, 27 Sep 2017 15:23:49 +0000 (UTC)","by lists.denx.de (Postfix, from userid 105)\n\tid B3AEAC21D78; 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