[{"id":3683651,"web_url":"http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/comment/3683651/","msgid":"<b8a30329-28a6-410f-8197-cd8ca09ed09f@ovn.org>","list_archive_url":null,"date":"2026-04-28T18:36:32","subject":"Re: [ovs-dev] [PATCH ovn 0/5] Fix up northd documentation.","submitter":{"id":76798,"url":"http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/api/people/76798/","name":"Ilya Maximets","email":"i.maximets@ovn.org"},"content":"On 4/28/26 7:45 PM, Mark Michelson via dev wrote:\n> This patch set aims to correct errors in ovn-northd documentation.\n> Specifially, it corrects the following:\n> \n> * Add missing/incorrect program options to manpages. For this series,\n>   this includes the ovn-northd, ovn-nb, and ovn-nbctl manpages.\n> * Correct missing/incorrect program options in usage strings. For this\n>   series, this includes the ovn-northd and ovn-nbctl programs.\n> \n> In addition to the above, this series also splits the ovn-northd manpage\n> in two. The ovn-northd manpage contains only information about running\n> the ovn-northd application, such as command line options. The new\n> ovn-logical-flows manpage contains information about the logical flows\n> that ovn-northd installs. The final commit in this series converts the\n> ovn-logical-flows manpage input file from XML to rST, since it is more\n> frequently updated by developers, and rST is much easier to read and\n> edit than XML.\n> \n> One thing this series does NOT try to address is missing information in\n> the ovn-logical-flows document regarding how certain options affect the\n> generated logical flows. This can be done in another patch series, and\n> with the conversion to rST, this will likely be much easier to do.\n> \n> About 99% of this series was AI-generated. My contributions are some\n> clarifications in the commit messages, as well as updating some\n> ancillary files in the final commit to indicate the requirement for\n> rst2man.\n\nFWIW, we shouldn't add an extra dependency for this.  The standard way to\nbuild rST man pages is with sphinx and OVN already has all the infra for\nthat in Documentation/automake.mk.  The ovn-sim.1 is built this way.\nThough you'll need to use RST_MANPAGES instead of RST_MANPAGES_NOINST for\nthe northd page, I suppose.  You can also find more examples in the\nDocumentation/automake.mk in OVS.\n\nThe resulted page will be in Documentation/ref, make sure it's properly\nplaced for distribution.  Will need an update for Documentation/conf.py\nand Documentation/ref/index.rst, so it is browse-able in the built\ndocumentation on the website.\n\nAnd maybe tell claude to respect the ling length limits where it's not\na vebratim code. :)\n\nBest regards, Ilya Maximets.","headers":{"Return-Path":"<ovs-dev-bounces@openvswitch.org>","X-Original-To":["incoming@patchwork.ozlabs.org","dev@openvswitch.org"],"Delivered-To":["patchwork-incoming@legolas.ozlabs.org","ovs-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"],"Authentication-Results":["legolas.ozlabs.org;\n spf=pass (sender SPF authorized) smtp.mailfrom=openvswitch.org\n (client-ip=2605:bc80:3010::133; helo=smtp2.osuosl.org;\n envelope-from=ovs-dev-bounces@openvswitch.org; receiver=patchwork.ozlabs.org)","smtp3.osuosl.org;\n dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=ovn.org"],"Received":["from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::133])\n\t(using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)\n\t key-exchange x25519 server-signature ECDSA (secp384r1) server-digest SHA384)\n\t(No client certificate requested)\n\tby legolas.ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4g4q0C3j29z1yHv\n\tfor <incoming@patchwork.ozlabs.org>; Wed, 29 Apr 2026 04:36:43 +1000 (AEST)","from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])\n\tby smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57399407CD;\n\tTue, 28 Apr 2026 18:36:41 +0000 (UTC)","from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])\n by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP\n id FjQBs_2onnRN; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 18:36:39 +0000 (UTC)","from lists.linuxfoundation.org (lf-lists.osuosl.org [140.211.9.56])\n\tby smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B09B0407C1;\n\tTue, 28 Apr 2026 18:36:39 +0000 (UTC)","from lf-lists.osuosl.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])\n\tby lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8978AC04FB;\n\tTue, 28 Apr 2026 18:36:39 +0000 (UTC)","from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136])\n by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B207C04FA\n for <dev@openvswitch.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 18:36:38 +0000 (UTC)","from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])\n by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D0496107B\n for <dev@openvswitch.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 18:36:38 +0000 (UTC)","from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])\n by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP\n id xYt3yMbo5Rvu for <dev@openvswitch.org>;\n Tue, 28 Apr 2026 18:36:37 +0000 (UTC)","from mail-vs1-f68.google.com (mail-vs1-f68.google.com\n [209.85.217.68])\n by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BDA461076\n for <dev@openvswitch.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 18:36:37 +0000 (UTC)","by mail-vs1-f68.google.com with SMTP id\n ada2fe7eead31-61399bdd395so3839691137.2\n for <dev@openvswitch.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 11:36:37 -0700 (PDT)","from [192.168.88.241] (89-24-34-32.nat.epc.tmcz.cz. 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charset=\"us-ascii\"","Content-Transfer-Encoding":"7bit","Errors-To":"ovs-dev-bounces@openvswitch.org","Sender":"\"dev\" <ovs-dev-bounces@openvswitch.org>"}},{"id":3683682,"web_url":"http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/comment/3683682/","msgid":"<aaa884d3-932a-42a8-afc0-fabd29e985aa@ovn.org>","list_archive_url":null,"date":"2026-04-28T19:13:53","subject":"Re: [ovs-dev] [PATCH ovn 0/5] Fix up northd documentation.","submitter":{"id":76798,"url":"http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/api/people/76798/","name":"Ilya Maximets","email":"i.maximets@ovn.org"},"content":"On 4/28/26 8:36 PM, Ilya Maximets wrote:\n> On 4/28/26 7:45 PM, Mark Michelson via dev wrote:\n>> This patch set aims to correct errors in ovn-northd documentation.\n>> Specifially, it corrects the following:\n>>\n>> * Add missing/incorrect program options to manpages. For this series,\n>>   this includes the ovn-northd, ovn-nb, and ovn-nbctl manpages.\n>> * Correct missing/incorrect program options in usage strings. For this\n>>   series, this includes the ovn-northd and ovn-nbctl programs.\n>>\n>> In addition to the above, this series also splits the ovn-northd manpage\n>> in two. The ovn-northd manpage contains only information about running\n>> the ovn-northd application, such as command line options. The new\n>> ovn-logical-flows manpage contains information about the logical flows\n>> that ovn-northd installs. The final commit in this series converts the\n>> ovn-logical-flows manpage input file from XML to rST, since it is more\n>> frequently updated by developers, and rST is much easier to read and\n>> edit than XML.\n>>\n>> One thing this series does NOT try to address is missing information in\n>> the ovn-logical-flows document regarding how certain options affect the\n>> generated logical flows. This can be done in another patch series, and\n>> with the conversion to rST, this will likely be much easier to do.\n>>\n>> About 99% of this series was AI-generated. My contributions are some\n>> clarifications in the commit messages, as well as updating some\n>> ancillary files in the final commit to indicate the requirement for\n>> rst2man.\n> \n> FWIW, we shouldn't add an extra dependency for this.  The standard way to\n> build rST man pages is with sphinx and OVN already has all the infra for\n> that in Documentation/automake.mk.  The ovn-sim.1 is built this way.\n> Though you'll need to use RST_MANPAGES instead of RST_MANPAGES_NOINST for\n> the northd page, I suppose.  You can also find more examples in the\n> Documentation/automake.mk in OVS.\n\nThere is also this commit where I converted ovs-actions page from XML\nto rST quite a few years ago (in OVS repo, of course):\n  c2fb5bdae6e3 (\"ovs-actions: Convert man page from xml to rST.\")\nIt's not perfect, but can be used as a reference.\n\n> \n> The resulted page will be in Documentation/ref, make sure it's properly\n> placed for distribution.  Will need an update for Documentation/conf.py\n> and Documentation/ref/index.rst, so it is browse-able in the built\n> documentation on the website.\n> \n> And maybe tell claude to respect the ling length limits where it's not\n> a vebratim code. :)\n\nThis last remark is primarily for over-wrapping.  The line lengths in the\nnew rST doc are all over the place in terms of their length, it's actually\nhard to read.  The doc can be likely significantly shorter, if the lines\nare wrapped proerply.  E.g. this:\n\n+  - If the logical router has rules specified in\n+    ``nat`` with\n+    ``external_mac``, then\n+    those addresses are also used to populate the switch's destination\n+    lookup on the chassis where\n+    ``logical_port`` is\n+    resident.\n\nCan probably be about 3 lines instead of 7.\n\nIt also sometimes splits the `` `` blocks, sometimes it doesn't.  In a few\nplaces it might be more beneficial to use proper blocks with :: instead of\nvery long `` `` lines.\n\nIn general, while claude made a bulk of work, I'd suggest to do a manual\nediting run.  It sucks, but the doc can be much better with proper formatting,\nhighlights and section cross-reference (I don't see links between sections\nin the patch, while they can be there, since rST allows for this kind of\nstuff) that will be very useful in html on the website.  Maybe claude can\nhelp with this stuff too, but it needs to be guided.\n\nBest regards, Ilya Maximets.","headers":{"Return-Path":"<ovs-dev-bounces@openvswitch.org>","X-Original-To":["incoming@patchwork.ozlabs.org","dev@openvswitch.org"],"Delivered-To":["patchwork-incoming@legolas.ozlabs.org","ovs-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"],"Authentication-Results":["legolas.ozlabs.org;\n spf=pass (sender SPF authorized) smtp.mailfrom=openvswitch.org\n (client-ip=2605:bc80:3010::138; helo=smtp1.osuosl.org;\n envelope-from=ovs-dev-bounces@openvswitch.org; receiver=patchwork.ozlabs.org)","smtp4.osuosl.org;\n dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=ovn.org"],"Received":["from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::138])\n\t(using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)\n\t key-exchange x25519 server-signature ECDSA (secp384r1) server-digest SHA384)\n\t(No client certificate requested)\n\tby legolas.ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4g4qqH0B80z1xrS\n\tfor <incoming@patchwork.ozlabs.org>; Wed, 29 Apr 2026 05:14:02 +1000 (AEST)","from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])\n\tby smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65E1883D6F;\n\tTue, 28 Apr 2026 19:14:01 +0000 (UTC)","from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])\n by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP\n id hccIUD_76o7Z; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 19:13:59 +0000 (UTC)","from lists.linuxfoundation.org (lf-lists.osuosl.org [140.211.9.56])\n\tby smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A74F283D6A;\n\tTue, 28 Apr 2026 19:13:59 +0000 (UTC)","from lf-lists.osuosl.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])\n\tby lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C31FC04FB;\n\tTue, 28 Apr 2026 19:13:59 +0000 (UTC)","from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137])\n by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A02C04FA\n for <dev@openvswitch.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 19:13:59 +0000 (UTC)","from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])\n by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2BDC411C0\n for <dev@openvswitch.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 19:13:58 +0000 (UTC)","from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])\n by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP\n id FQ3BtUyHIMkC for <dev@openvswitch.org>;\n Tue, 28 Apr 2026 19:13:58 +0000 (UTC)","from mail-wm1-f65.google.com (mail-wm1-f65.google.com\n [209.85.128.65])\n by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9349411BF\n for <dev@openvswitch.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 19:13:57 +0000 (UTC)","by mail-wm1-f65.google.com with SMTP id\n 5b1f17b1804b1-48984d29fe3so143210285e9.0\n for <dev@openvswitch.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 12:13:57 -0700 (PDT)","from [192.168.88.241] (89-24-34-32.nat.epc.tmcz.cz. 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charset=\"us-ascii\"","Content-Transfer-Encoding":"7bit","Errors-To":"ovs-dev-bounces@openvswitch.org","Sender":"\"dev\" <ovs-dev-bounces@openvswitch.org>"}},{"id":3683714,"web_url":"http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/comment/3683714/","msgid":"<CAA1+qOOkLnrEMrUFEEbGNTcg-0HSVLd8TwmJ89kwhU2FG3iAMw@mail.gmail.com>","list_archive_url":null,"date":"2026-04-28T20:55:17","subject":"Re: [ovs-dev] [PATCH ovn 0/5] Fix up northd documentation.","submitter":{"id":71978,"url":"http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/api/people/71978/","name":"Mark Michelson","email":"mmichels@redhat.com"},"content":"Thanks for the comments Ilya!\n\nOn Tue, Apr 28, 2026 at 3:14 PM Ilya Maximets <i.maximets@ovn.org> wrote:\n>\n> On 4/28/26 8:36 PM, Ilya Maximets wrote:\n> > On 4/28/26 7:45 PM, Mark Michelson via dev wrote:\n> >> This patch set aims to correct errors in ovn-northd documentation.\n> >> Specifially, it corrects the following:\n> >>\n> >> * Add missing/incorrect program options to manpages. For this series,\n> >>   this includes the ovn-northd, ovn-nb, and ovn-nbctl manpages.\n> >> * Correct missing/incorrect program options in usage strings. For this\n> >>   series, this includes the ovn-northd and ovn-nbctl programs.\n> >>\n> >> In addition to the above, this series also splits the ovn-northd manpage\n> >> in two. The ovn-northd manpage contains only information about running\n> >> the ovn-northd application, such as command line options. The new\n> >> ovn-logical-flows manpage contains information about the logical flows\n> >> that ovn-northd installs. The final commit in this series converts the\n> >> ovn-logical-flows manpage input file from XML to rST, since it is more\n> >> frequently updated by developers, and rST is much easier to read and\n> >> edit than XML.\n> >>\n> >> One thing this series does NOT try to address is missing information in\n> >> the ovn-logical-flows document regarding how certain options affect the\n> >> generated logical flows. This can be done in another patch series, and\n> >> with the conversion to rST, this will likely be much easier to do.\n> >>\n> >> About 99% of this series was AI-generated. My contributions are some\n> >> clarifications in the commit messages, as well as updating some\n> >> ancillary files in the final commit to indicate the requirement for\n> >> rst2man.\n> >\n> > FWIW, we shouldn't add an extra dependency for this.  The standard way to\n> > build rST man pages is with sphinx and OVN already has all the infra for\n> > that in Documentation/automake.mk.  The ovn-sim.1 is built this way.\n> > Though you'll need to use RST_MANPAGES instead of RST_MANPAGES_NOINST for\n> > the northd page, I suppose.  You can also find more examples in the\n> > Documentation/automake.mk in OVS.\n>\n> There is also this commit where I converted ovs-actions page from XML\n> to rST quite a few years ago (in OVS repo, of course):\n>   c2fb5bdae6e3 (\"ovs-actions: Convert man page from xml to rST.\")\n> It's not perfect, but can be used as a reference.\n\nThanks for the pointers, I'll have a look and see what I can do.\n\n>\n> >\n> > The resulted page will be in Documentation/ref, make sure it's properly\n> > placed for distribution.  Will need an update for Documentation/conf.py\n> > and Documentation/ref/index.rst, so it is browse-able in the built\n> > documentation on the website.\n> >\n> > And maybe tell claude to respect the ling length limits where it's not\n> > a vebratim code. :)\n>\n> This last remark is primarily for over-wrapping.  The line lengths in the\n> new rST doc are all over the place in terms of their length, it's actually\n> hard to read.  The doc can be likely significantly shorter, if the lines\n> are wrapped proerply.  E.g. this:\n>\n> +  - If the logical router has rules specified in\n> +    ``nat`` with\n> +    ``external_mac``, then\n> +    those addresses are also used to populate the switch's destination\n> +    lookup on the chassis where\n> +    ``logical_port`` is\n> +    resident.\n>\n> Can probably be about 3 lines instead of 7.\n>\n> It also sometimes splits the `` `` blocks, sometimes it doesn't.  In a few\n> places it might be more beneficial to use proper blocks with :: instead of\n> very long `` `` lines.\n\nPretty much everything you've said above with regards to formatting is\nlikely a symptom of\n* That's how the original XML document was. Different authors used\ndifferent styles, and we weren't always the best at catching when the\nline lengths were longer than 80 characters.\n* I simply instructed Claude to convert the file, with no direction\nwith regards to reformatting. Lines that had cumbersome XML tags were\nreduced to a few formatting characters, meaning that some lines that\nused to be quite long were reduced in size dramatically. The\nconversion left those as they were rather than attempting to compact\nthe text into something resembling a proper document.\n\nThat second bullet point is on me since I should have been more\nexplicit with my instructions. The big thing I did was to make sure\nthe resulting manpage looked sane, rather than looking at the source\ntext to make sure that it was formatted in a reasonable way.\n\n>\n> In general, while claude made a bulk of work, I'd suggest to do a manual\n> editing run.  It sucks, but the doc can be much better with proper formatting,\n> highlights and section cross-reference (I don't see links between sections\n> in the patch, while they can be there, since rST allows for this kind of\n> stuff) that will be very useful in html on the website.  Maybe claude can\n> help with this stuff too, but it needs to be guided.\n\nWith regards to making the document more readable by respecting the 80\ncharacter limitation, I'll happily do that.\n\nWere there cross-references in the original XML? I know there were\nreferences to DB tables and columns, but I don't recall if there were\nreferences to other document sections in the original XML. I'm willing\nto guide claude through an attempt at adding these. However, if they\nweren't there originally, and it requires manually editing several\nthousand lines of documentation, then I would argue that adding them\nwould be a separate scope beyond the initial conversion and could be\ndone as a follow-up. In other words, if the conversion is not losing\ninformation, then I think it's fine as-is and the niceties can be\nadded later.\n\n>\n> Best regards, Ilya Maximets.\n>","headers":{"Return-Path":"<ovs-dev-bounces@openvswitch.org>","X-Original-To":["incoming@patchwork.ozlabs.org","dev@openvswitch.org"],"Delivered-To":["patchwork-incoming@legolas.ozlabs.org","ovs-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"],"Authentication-Results":["legolas.ozlabs.org;\n\tdkim=fail reason=\"signature verification failed\" (1024-bit key;\n unprotected) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.a=rsa-sha256\n header.s=mimecast20190719 header.b=RViM69J6;\n\tdkim-atps=neutral","legolas.ozlabs.org;\n spf=pass (sender SPF authorized) smtp.mailfrom=openvswitch.org\n (client-ip=2605:bc80:3010::137; helo=smtp4.osuosl.org;\n envelope-from=ovs-dev-bounces@openvswitch.org; receiver=patchwork.ozlabs.org)","smtp4.osuosl.org;\n\tdkim=fail reason=\"signature verification failed\" (1024-bit key,\n unprotected) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.a=rsa-sha256\n header.s=mimecast20190719 header.b=RViM69J6","smtp3.osuosl.org; 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